What's the story behind the 'the'?

[JennyLeez]

An intersting article that will have you thinking.
I disagree with the reference to Hawkes Bay though. I have not heard 'The' placed in front before. George may have more idea here.

What's the story behind the 'the'?
There are some place names in New Zealand that just can't seem to shake an unnecessary 'the' that keeps appearing in front of them.

Hawkes Bay is one. Waikato is another.

And Wairarapa has one too. Sometimes it sneaks into the stories in this newspaper when we're not paying enough attention. I cringe every time it appears in a direct quote and I can't delete it.

People drop it into their speech all the time - "I'm just visiting the Wairarapa", or "It's the best coffee in the Wairarapa".

But why is it there? What is it about Wairarapa that needs the definite article, when other place names don't?

Nobody talks about going to the Wellington or visiting the Taranaki.

I Googled "the Wairarapa" and sure enough, that little three letter word was popping up everywhere, from schools to government websites to times-age.co.nz.

It was in articles from Te Ara, the encyclopaedia of New Zealand - "... substantial damage to many towns in the Wairarapa, and in Wellington" - and the Masterton Civil Defence website - "currently no emergencies in the Wairarapa".


We're not a mountain range, like the Tararuas, or a river, like the Ruamahanga. We don't talk about the Carterton or the Greytown. So why the Wairarapa?

I don't see why it needs to be there. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

If you think there's a reason why Wairarapa needs a 'the', by all means, tell us why

Heather McCracken - Wairarapa Times

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[Rwood]

I can't see any need for the "the" at all for these towns and regions. But things may not be all that simple, when you see articles like this one:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/10/why_is_it_called_the_hague.html

[beteljuice]

It is a geographical rather than demographic 'region' and thus should have 'the' when referencing it.

Wairarapa (Maori pronunciation ; usually approximated in English as ) is a geographical region of New Zealand. It occupies the south-eastern corner of the North Island, east of metropolitan Wellington and south-west of the Hawke's Bay region.

... and there you have another correctly 'addressed' region.

but why 'the' beteljuice 

[Rwood]

Wairarapa (Maori pronunciation ; usually approximated in English as ) is a geographical region of New Zealand. It occupies the south-eastern corner of the North Island, east of metropolitan Wellington and south-west of the Hawke's Bay region.
... and there you have another correctly 'addressed' region.

but why 'the' beteljuice 
[/quote]

Good point - as in the case of  "the Mackenzie" . Wanganui-Manawatu, Hawkes Bay and Wellington are demographic regions, so they don't get the article.

[beteljuice]

"Hawkes Bay" - even more devious 

See the quote, The Hawkes Bay region (geographic), Hawkes Bay [NO the] references township or community (demographic).

[hbweather]

I think Beteljuice has nailed it - when a region is mentioned or discussed, "the" is added in front of it, but the word "region" is dropped. So the part of NZ in which I live is the Hawkes Bay (region).

Wellington, on the other hand, is primarily the name for the city, but one may also speak of the Wellington region, denoting the larger surrounding area.

Other countries have this oddity of usage, too. Africa has The Gambia, England has the Cotswolds and the Pennines...

[JennyLeez]

and yet we up here George would say we were going to Hawkes Bay.
I was down in Hawkes Bay. I went to Hawkes Bay.  The circus is coming to Hawkes Bay.

The only time we would use 'the' would be to say we were down 'the' bay.
Interesting George

[Rwood]

And just for fun, remember that the name of the actual bay is Hawke Bay (no "S").

[JennyLeez]

or is it Hawke's Bay

[hbweather]

Captain James Cook named the bay on October 12th, 1769, after the then First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir Edward Hawke.

To be totally correct, the bay itself is Hawke Bay, and the region surrounding it is Hawke's Bay....

And Jenny, isn't Wairoa part of the Hawkes Bay region, or are you Poverty Bay or Gisborne...showing my ignorance here!