New Zealand Local Weather Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ato2 on March 22, 2012, 03:56:13 PM
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You know who reminded me that I promised to share my experiences of banana growing in this country.
So, today, Thursday 222nd, I will start the epistle off!
First of all, let us remove common ignorances.
There are no "banana trees" or "banana palms". Bananas are not trees or palms. Perhaps it would help to think of them as a giant herb, perhaps.
Some grow very tall: to around 40 feet, others are mere dwarfs, lucky to reach 3 feet. Anyway, they belong to the genus Musa.
There are many kinds of bananas, some of which will grow in parts of New Zealand.
What I share with you is my own experience of finding them in parts of NZ and also my efforts at growing them in different locations.
In the far North they are quite common and also around Auckland.
Outside of these areas, there are favoured locations which will grow several species, often quite readily.
Basically it is a function of climate, soils and cultivation: NZ is notorious for micro climates and gardeners can exploit these niches.
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We have several plants here and get fruit most years
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Has anyone ever managed to grow a small one inside? I'd be keen to give it a go if I can lay my hands on somehting suitable
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We had one on the patio as a kid in Westport.
Where do you get the seed? I understand that commercial bananas are sterile these days
Sent from my IDEOS X5 using Tapatalk
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Ato2 is doing this in episodes hence my mention before 'The Days of our Bananas'
He is hopefully going to teach us how to grow bananas from seed :)
I never have but am curious to try.
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I have tried with the Ladies Fingers ones...they grow too big, of course.!I think there would be some dwarf ones...think they were called hamoa and from Fiji.
I would put them in a conservatory, with a concrete floor, and a suitable tub and they should be fine. Lots of watering needed. Also, rotate the plant daily by 90 degrees, so as to even where the light falls on the leaves.
The other option is to use the common larger types, like I do, and recycle them outside into the garden before you cannot move them out the door! Then replace with a convenient, younger, one.
[I know, I know, some will this is a parable for modern living]
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I presume you have the red volcanic soil? Bananas like volcanic soils, though they also do well in the clay stuff in other parts of Northland.
Are yours Ladies Fingers? My eating banana plants came from the Bay of the Islands, some years ago.
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Yes, vegetative reproduction is the norm for gardeners. Some produce seed- eg Ensete - and grow readily from that.
I imagine that they are also reproduced through fancier, scientific means, as well.
Westport would be favourable for growing basjoo: looks like ladies fingers but produces inedible fruit. Japanese used it for the fibre. It is the most cold hardy one I know of.
I also think you could grow the giant Ensete and could experiment with Ladies Fingers. Don't know if they would fruit but if you have a favoured spot that avoids frost and wind, worth a go.
As to obtaining them: garden centres locally (New Plymouth) sell various species, as do many further North.
When my ensete produces seed, I can send some to you, Tony, but it may be a year or two away.
Look around: you may find someone has a plant or two growing in Westport. The young suckers can be divided off, much like canna lillies are divided.
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Will add to episode over the coming days and put photos in as well
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OK: today's update.
I begin with the the disclaimer/EULA- or as the politician's minder said at the media conference:
"Here's the statement, now here is the denial!"
I am not a horticulturist, nor any kind of botanic expert. Just a gardener who likes growing certain plants outside their normal range. There will be experts around in the propagation and cultivation of bananas and I imagine that they will reside in the Far North.
Right. I first grew bananas in Singapore: not much is required to do that.
Back in NZ, where I lived in Northland, I noticed that in the Far North there were some bananas growing, so I transplanted some and grew them. Not too difficult to do and fruiting was reasonably reliable. People were experimenting with different types and it wasn't difficult to obtain young plants.
Then I moved back to Taranaki. There were some basjoo bananas growing on the farm at Cape Egmont, so I started planting more of them around the garden. I also had some others that I transplanted from up north.
Because of the constant wind- the awful, dry shredding SE, shelter was of essence for the edible fruiting ones.
Anyway, I moved into town and now have a quarter of an acre around the city's original green belt.
Things are a lot easier here: the wind is much less and edible fruits have been a regular bonus.
I primarily see bananas as a landscaping option, with the bonus of fruit.
Rule 1: Location.
As warm as possible. As sunny as possible. Plenty of regular rain. Sheltered from strong, cold winds. No frosts. (NB: this is the ideal: they will survive light frosts- I have seen that in inland Northland; becomes a blackened stump and rises again)
Rule 2: Soils:
ideal is volcanic. As rich as possible, these plants are gross feeders.
Rule 3: Climate: Study your local climate/micro climate. For most of us, we are trying to grow plants well outside their natural range. (Actually the whole of NZ is outside the natural range, but the Far North is closest in terms of matching requirements of heat).
As a guide: for me: usually each year: Sunshine just under 2,200 hrs, Rainfall: 1,400mm and reliable. Screen frosts nil .Groundfrosts: 2 or 3 and only for a hour or so at the most. Wind: probably around 20 km/hr mean wind speed. Summer: 22 degrees day/14 nights. Autumn: 20/12, Winter: 14/7 Spring : 17/10
In my case, the low diurnal/ annual range is good, the lack of frost is good.
But my Summer maxima are lower than ideal: The Far North, Auckland, Tauranga, Gisbourne , Napier would be better off. But then those places have a greater chance of drought.
Also, I have had to provide shelter, considerable shelter to moderate the dry, cold, SE wind that comes from inland: less of a problem in other regions.
(to be continued, with some pix, and specific to my location.)
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They grow quite well in Waikanae or so I have read, I am sticking to growing cabbage trees!
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Yes, I would expect some would do OK there
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Right: one obtains ones young plant (sucker or pup, I think they are called).
Having selected a suitable location, bear in mind that they form colonies and are big plants, so plenty of space if you are going to grow heaps of them!
An ideal time to plant is probably late Spring but I usually plant them any old time.
A dampish day, or a foggy, warm day is perfect.
[insert image of a young plant ready to be divided off from colony]
Dig a hole, stamp the plant down firmly. Keep watered, as these plants love water.
Wait...
Depending on conditions, new leaves should emerge within a month or so. That means all is good.
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Herewith several young plants ready to be divided off from the colony. Dig down and make sure that you have plenty of root. They divide much the same way as a canna lily does, the main difference being the size.
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Re location:
This is what the back of my garden looks like. You can see the different colonies of bananas and some fruit hanging down. The view is to the north east, sea is to the north, Mt Taranaki is to the SW.
I am around 70 metres asl and about one kilometre from the CBD, which lies below and to the NNE.
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In the shoutbox was:
beteljuice:
I have one black and rotting ....
MUSA BASJOO - didn't like several nights < -12C, although I think it's still ticking over
ato2:
That's the hardy one of the family. The Japanese wrap them in straw, I think, to survive the winter. <-12 is quite an ask for banana, but it may come back!
Although a couple of months too early, the beteljuice cut down the rotting psuedo stem to appox. 24cm and put a large bell cloche over it to try to warm up the soil and 'dry' the rot.
Three days later and 10cm of center leaf stem - so cloche off and put in dull corner of the (cluttered) potting shed until the nights are warmer.
No sign of the couple of 'peepers' I had in cardboard tubes filled in with perlite. Have to wait and see ???
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have grown lady finger here too, even with light frosts in the valley (was protected to a degree by other trees close by (including a willow tree that grew over the top of it)
you see lots at Ohope, being frost free more right on the beach
ps, thanks for background info, I have learned some more
pps, we used to put a plastic bag over the fruit, but I think that was to stop fruit fly, which NZ does not have
just putting the green bananas in the hot water cupboard with a banana peel (to give off the ripening gas) got them rippening up fast
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Thanks for that, Weather Display. Yes, ripening in the way you do is the way, I reckon. Some people in New Plymouth are keen on the plastic bags but I don't bother.
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That line of plants along that NE direction - yes they are quite big aren't they!! And facing the daily sun with wind protection behind.
I could well imagine being able to grow the smaller varieties indoors in a sun porch but the heat would continually dry them out so watering twice a day during sunny days is probably a necessity. Yes mild nights with not too much diurnal range would help. Very interesting. (In Tokoroa, I would not even try!! LOL!)
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The wind protection helps... that photo was taken just after 2 days of those awful winds last week.
Having said that, they survive wind, but the leaves get rather tatty as they tear.
Plus, I saw a hedge of low growing species used as a wind break in Norfolk Island.
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That is true dedication to the Musa cause, beteljuice!
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OK, another pix: here is closer shot of bananas in flower and fruit, taken the other day.
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Nice shot that Tom!
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Thanks, Rupert.
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Here's another look at a hand of bananas: the fruit forms quickly after flowering. I usually cut the "bell" of flowers below the fruit off: it will continue flower and make more fruit but it can be ages, in our NZ climates.
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Great shot there Tom with the flash on - excellent view of the hands of fruit from the one flower and stem. No wonder they are gross feeders!
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Thanks, Graeme. Yes, I feed them the ashes from the fire and plenty of water
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MUSA BASJOO - Update
The Kraken Awakes
.. or to put it another way, it won't become dormant again !!!
Having been given a kick start, it refuses to go bye-bye. Bought it out into the (unseasonal - UK Spring) warm sun this morning and gently peeled back the black / brown, frost damaged outer leaf stems. I couldn't believe the amount of 'water' that oozed out. It hasn't been watered for over 3 months !
The recovering(?) center leaf stem is already definately a (small) leaf, and the smallest 'peeper' which was a tiny 1cm black point has during today produced another 1cm of green !
Tomorrows temp. is expected to be 20C, but the nights are still dropping near zero, so back in the dull corner of the potting shed.
I have no idea if it will cope with all the to-ing and fro-ing during the next month or two :(
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The Kraken Awakes[/b]
.. or to put it another way, it won't become dormant again !!!
Having been given a kick start, it refuses to go bye-bye. Bought it out into the (unseasonal - UK Spring) warm sun this morning and gently peeled back the black / brown, frost damaged outer leaf stems. I couldn't believe the amount of 'water' that oozed out. It hasn't been watered for over 3 months !
The recovering(?) center leaf stem is already definately a (small) leaf, and the smallest 'peeper' which was a tiny 1cm black point has during today produced another 1cm of green !
Tomorrows temp. is expected to be 20C, but the nights are still dropping near zero, so back in the dull corner of the potting shed.
I have no idea if it will cope with all the to-ing and fro-ing during the next month or two :(
That is dedication! Since you are having such excellent Spring weather, I can that should work.
Any chance of a photo of the young Kraken, please?
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Any chance of a photo of the young Kraken, please?
If I can remember how to use my brick of a mobile and get the picture out, I'll try to get a photo of 'Stumpy' :D
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Thanks.
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Let's see if I can get this posting right !
MUSA BASJOO
Brief history - this was bought as a nursery plant last Summer, approx. 65cm high. I planted it in a large tub lined with 'bubble-wrap'.
It never really wanted to get going, managing two and a half leaves (the eldest dieing or breaking as new emerged) until a few weeks before 'Winter close-down' when it suddenly decided four broad leaves would be nice.
Again just before 'close-down' it produced a couple of small 'peepers'.
When winter was on the doorstep I cut off the leaves, inverted and tied them together making a 'hat' for the pseudo stem (Something I'd seen on the TV)
The small fragile 'peepers' I put toilet roll tubes around and filled in with perlite.
Then the whole plant and tub were swathed with horticultural fleece.
Last Winter was quite mild apart from a few cold weeks with a few nights <-12C.
A couple of weeks ago the top two thirds suddenly folded under its own weight. Removing the fleece revealed a black and brown sodden mess !
I cut it down severely to find a pale (not black !) small inner core.
Spring has begun, and with some unseasonally sunny warm days (although the nights are still prone to be cold) so the beteljuice tried to revive the plant by peeling back the most rotten flesh and putting a large bell cloche over it. (Putting it in the potting shed at night).
It responded in two days and now doesn't want to go back dormant again.
So now (without the cloche) it's to-ing and fro-ing from the potting shed and warm sunlight (Today was 21C :o)
In the main, larger picture the (frost dead) palm in the background is to give a visual reference to the approximate height before cutting down, and the kebab skewers to illustrate the amount of rotten flesh I had to peel back.
In the smaller picture is shown one of the peepers which was 1cm of black, but in two days is showing new growth.
... and Today (21C) I've discovered a tiny dot of green - A brand new peeper. All of this is months too early - probably going to end in tears !!!
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Be wary - Triffid awakes! LOL. That looks like great growth at the top and a strong new peeper too! And summer will come, except there looks to be a nasty Low to the west approaching from Greenland... better get the hot water bottle out!!! For the tree I mean... ;)
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Another crazy (warm) weather day 21C > 23C, guys in long shorts and gals in short shorts and mini dresses - reminds me of the early 70's (sigh), but tonight is forecast for 0C and weather to return to seasonal 'normal' over the next few days.
I've had to water the garden - never been known this time of year (UK spring).
The brand new green 'dot' of a peeper is now just over 1cm - this shouldn't happen for months yet, we have tulips in bloom, again too early !
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... there looks to be a nasty Low to the west approaching from Greenland... better get the hot water bottle out!!! For the tree I mean... ;)
Another crazy (warm) weather day 21C > 23C, guys in long shorts and gals in short shorts and mini dresses - reminds me of the early 70's (sigh), but tonight is forecast for 0C and weather to return to seasonal 'normal' over the next few days.
I've had to water the garden - never been known this time of year (UK spring).
The brand new green 'dot' of a peeper is now just over 1cm - this shouldn't happen for months yet, we have tulips in bloom, again too early !
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Enjoy the weather while it is there, and the nice social scenery that accompanies it!
My partner is off to the UK ( West Yorkshire) arriving Monday...how does area look weatherwise, the next wee while?
Your banana probably thinks it died and went to Heaven...
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Update:
We've suddenly had 4 days of good temperatures (23+) and hot sun.
Banana is on the move again !
Another peeper !, but ......
advice please - at ground level just below the still rotting outer stem flesh are two little pointy nodules. Are these peepers (at ground level ?), should I cut them out ?
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My initial reaction would be to leave them alone. Let me think on it, overnight.
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What a difference already :o - definately suckers, coming out at 90deg soil level.
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Ah, the beginnings of a banana plantation! :) I am still thinking though...
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The smaller the sucker, the harder to get growth from them if you cut them out and transplant- obviously they don't have much, if any, corm. Possible to grow these little ones by starting them in water....
Trouble is my experience is just about growing them outside and other than watering, fertilizing and the occasional transplant of sword suckers about 2 feet high, I just leave them alone and ignore all peepers.
Inside for Winter and in pots...limitations of space in pots...
I still would be inclined to leave them alone...watch how they develop over your Summer. They can always be removed later.
Not much help to you, I fear but please keep me posted.
Perhaps I should pot a sucker myself and grow it inside to see what issues arise.
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The banana is going .... bananas !!!
Despite still being half the girth, height and leaf mass that it was before the winter 'rot' down there is now a third right-angle sucker at ground level forming, plus a new peeper only 2cm from the 'old' stem. The two peepers from last year although green are still very small (<2cm) and hardly moving, but a peeper from a few weeks ago is now approx 5cm and begining to look like it might be a 'water' shoot.
I can only assume the banana is trying all options after the severe stress of three parts rotting because of frost damage.
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I think you are right: the plant was stressed and now it is going "hell for leather" to get on with growing.
I have seen a few large plants in the Far North of New Zealand (circa lat 35 degrees S) hit by a rare Winter frost. One of them turned black and looked like it was going to rot away. I passed by the same spot in mid Spring and the same plant- leafless, and still looking like a layer of creosote had been applied to the trunk- had thrown a huge spike of flowers and the first lot of fruit had appeared!
The frost, most likely, would have been very light- probably air temperatures were not lower than around minus 1 C
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Even more peepers breaking ground - It will all end in tears !
How can a recovering parent 'feed' them all ?
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This thread has piqued my interest and I might give it a go. We only get 1 or two frosts a year and I might start off a plant or two in the greenhouse and see what happens. I see you can buy the plants for about $18 from http://www.subtropica.co.nz/index.php (catalogue page)
Tony C.
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I did a little trolling around banana forums (fora?) and several times came across posters being surprised at the number of peepers growing after a plant had been stressed. I appeared to me that they let them grow and later removed them to pot so that they ended up with many plants.
These were American sites, with real Winters, not like what I have here in NZ- and obviously more extreme than the UK's- but their experiences may be somewhat more applicable to your situation.
Can I post some links here? Will check with admin or PM you if it suits.
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Remark from the subtropica site mentioned by Tony:
They must be thinned each year to 3 or 4 suckers around each main palm.
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They must be thinned each year to 3 or 4 suckers around each main palm.[/quote]
I have had people swear that that is the way. I think that it is standard commercial growing practice. I used to do that as well, with my plants and it didn't seem to make much difference- I get plenty of fruit now by letting them colonise. I just remove suckers when I want to start off another colony. Bananas can be very potent growers and I think the Basjoo is one of the fastest.
This site may be of interest: http://www.bananas.org/f311/separating-pups-container-grown-bananas-comment-8638.html
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Minor update.
Today, for what feels like the first time in 4 weeks didn't need a coat and hat - It's supposed to be summer here !!!
So the banana was bought out of the potting shed where it's been sulking but protected from the unseasonally cold gusting winds and heavy rain squalls.
It now has 9 pups (4 of which are straight off the psuedo stem from just below soil level to just above).
Guess what, heavy overcast and bands of rain forecast for the next few days .... might get out in the sun again just before winter 8)
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Gosh it is determined plant! Thanks for the update. Hopefully you will get some more sunny periods soon.
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Banana sulking in potting shed again - Here's why: http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2012-06-28/flash-flooding-strikes-again/ .... but .... another two peepers !
I am going to have to do some surgery, but it's my first 'nana and I don't know which are spears (If any), and which are water shoots.
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I was wondering how did things turn out, on the musa front?
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A mixed bag !
Lousy cool very wet summer. At one time there were 17 peepers including some side shoots at or just above soil level.
I cut back to seven peepers and as an experiment potted three of the best I thinned out.
Parent has been trimmed back, fleeced and in the potting shed, together with an unprotected 'babe'. (We are now back to snow and sub-zero temps)
The two other thinnings I've bought in the house.
Score: One dead, the other nearly dead !
I am unsure why, I am thinking that it wasn't humid enough, all other requirements should have been OK ?
I've got some mobile pics I took before thinning. I'll find them out and post if I can find them.
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Be great to see the pictures, thanks. Re the the inside ones- you may be right: I am assuming that your house is centrally heated and the humidity is most likely quite low, so they dried out too much?
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Sorry about the delay in replying !
Yep - I think the CH did for the indoor 'trial', even though I ensured the pots were moist.
We've had a thaw, but I'm too disheartend to check-out the parent and remaining 'baby pot' in the potting shed. Last time I looked (before it got snowed in) baby was rather brown.
Here's the pics I took of the recovery and thinning out back in July:
Hmmm ... limited to two attachments per post ...
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cont ...
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... and finally ...
The recovered parent which was just a sludgy brown stump after the the previous winter.
Still nowhere near it's full potential - but alive !!!
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Thanks for the update. The plant looks well and thriving!
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Hi Guys.
I stumbled upon this post while searching for Musa Basjoo pups/rhizome's for sale in NZ so apologies in advance for replying on an old thread.
How are yours doing after all of this time? I'm currently growing 'Misi Luki' here in Waikanae and they grow quiet well.
Anybody keen to sell a Musa Basjoo pup/rhizome or small plant?
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UK - sad to relate last winter saw off all (10) of my plants !
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I wondered how you were getting on..sorry to learn that drastic action was required
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Hi Ato2. Great to see some other banana enthusiast in the North Island. I look forward to seeing how yours are doing.
Just for interests sake, I grow also Strelitzia's, Ravenala (Travelers Palm, still small) and some Heliconia (yet to flower). Trying to give my garden a bit of a tropical look.
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Well just an update to an old post for those that are interested and still following this thread.
My ladyfinger bananas have been out for a while now (2 winters) and growing very well. No bananas yet.
I also have ABYSSINIAN BANANA, (Ensete Ventricosum) grown from seeds. These do exceptionally well here in the lower north island. They grow extremely fast and are great for that quick tropical look.
Our last winter was not bitterly cold, think there was just one or two days that reached 0. A few light frost days though. All bananas were unaffected.
I have purchased some musa basjoo seeds from Canada, these arrived early Jan. My first one came up yesterday. These are suppose to be one of the most cold tolerant bananas in the world and they can be grown all over the US, and even Canada. Therefore they should not be a problem for most of NZ. I will post an update in a few months to let you know how they are coming along.
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Hiya...I am sorry, I somehow missed replying earlier on...will do some posts as soon as I have a few spare moments
Cheers
ato2
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Would love to see some photos when you can post them. Will do the same, shortly.
Yes, you are right about the basjoo- very hardy characters, indeed. I think in Japan they cover them in Winter with rice straw houses and they beat the snow.
I am very interested in how the Heliconia are doing.
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basjoo- very hardy characters
The winter / spring before this, there were a few concentrated cold snaps = kaput.
Although it wasn't obvious until a few weeks later when they should have been coming out of 'hibernation'.
Over the previous few years I had enough pups to pass on to other interested parties. Every single one died :embarrassed:
In late spring / summer I'd have a couple outside the front door - the taxi drivers always asked 'How are your bananas ?" - strange the things that make us memorable :))